I've done a few small casings before that performed so-so, well, badly, but I used very little spawn. I'm leaning to having only a top layer of casing.
Any advice?
Thanks.
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Casing Questions |
| Posted by: Smerd Nov 20 03, 04:46 PM GMT |
| I think I'll soon have a few quart jars of
WBS spawn. I'm planning to case 'em 50/50 coir/verm, with a touch of horticultural lime, in an aluminum bread loaf pan, something like 5" x 12". Anyway, I've read that some folks don't bother with a bottom layer of casing, just 1/4-1/2" or so on top. But some folks like the bottom casing because it absorbs excess moisture. And even other folks - so many folks around - poke holes in the pan to let the moisture drain. I've done a few small casings before that performed so-so, well, badly, but I used very little spawn. I'm leaning to having only a top layer of casing. Any advice? Thanks. |
| Posted by: Nanook Nov 20 03, 05:53 PM GMT |
| Two casings, top and bottom, are used in
Hongus tek and other people have adapted it. The traditional casing is just a top layer. Let me tell you a casing story. The Mushroom Cultivator is the "bible" and people swear to it word for word like a bible as far as tek is concerned. It is a fantastic book and works as advertised or it would not have gained the fame. This book also draws on cultivation experience of a number of other species of mushrooms as well and Stamets tried to dial in the tek specifics on each one... This book covers a lot of ground. But there are other ways of executing tek. Stamets focuses, for example, on sterile culture -> spawn -> bulk substrate in cased beds. Grain is used to spawn bulk substrate, then bulk substrate is cased and fruited. But you can case straight up grain instead of spawning to bulk substrate, it's a viable shortcut... And then there is PF substrate, and you can of course case that too. Lots of variations on a theme. What did not change however, was the tek guidelines used to set the moisture levels in the casing. On cased beds of bulk substrate, like compost or straw, the substrate is wetted and squeezed; when water just beaded in your fist it was judged to be suitably hydrated. That is how most hobby growers set the _substrate_ moisture level on bulk substrate (straw, compost). With this water available in the spongy substrate, the casings had to be set with a lower moisture level accordingly. You water the casings a little wetter than you set the bulk substrate... You grab a handful and squeeze, and if water just drips out of your fist, the casing moisture level is properly set. Too wet and bulk substrate will rot. Now colonized grain and PF substrate are much drier. Unlike bulk substrates there is no squeezable surplus of liquid water. They are also more concentrated energy sources than bulk substrate, and it requires extra water to digest and convert. Efforts to get good fruitings out of dry substrates were overcome by adding an extra casing layer to the bottom of the bed. The casing moisture level was never set any higher than the traditional "squeeze and it drips" standard... Because that is what Stamets and other Gods have said works... They say get it too wet and things rot. But that is not the "case" when the tek has varied to this degree. Experiments fruiting off of cased grain and cased PF substrate show that they do fine in fully saturated casings for the first few days, and they don't need incubation. You can even dunk these substrates. There is no significant increases in contam rates as long as the hydration is properly done. What is increased significantly is fruiting performance... More Larger Fruits Faster... Yet many people are still using drier casings when the majority are fruiting from cased grain or cased PF substrate. So they call for two casing layers because they are not watering a single top casing layer with enough water to get fruiting  - That's what's going on.My take is this... If you are fruiting cased grain or cased PF cake you take your bread pan and you punch six small holes in the bottom. You layer one inch grain, or 1-1/2 inches of crumbled PF cake on the bottom and you case it with 3/4 inch of the casing mix of your choice. Soak the casings until water just begins to drip from the bottom, let drain and sit for 24 hours and repeat... And repeat again the day after that... That should work exactly enough water in to support a good flush. See: Water Delivery to Casings |
| Posted by: ender_wiggin Nov 20 03, 06:27 PM GMT |
| That was beautiful Nan......so well put..... |
| Posted by: dcyans Nov 20 03, 06:35 PM GMT |
Great advice there Nan
 I find way too many peeps really don't know how to properly hydrate there casings or even know what a casing with optimum moisture levels looks like
 It really is basic
It's like take a sponge and add water slowly (you could do this right on the middle of your
kitchen table
) then watch as it peaks with water and you will see the surface "glisten" that is what your casing should look like
This holds true for casings or cakes, anytime you use a casing
 ..................dcyans |
| Posted by: Smerd Nov 20 03, 07:46 PM GMT |
| Really, Nan. You are amazing! Such thoughtful advice - I really appreciate it. |
| Posted by: PlumDragon Nov 20 03, 09:55 PM GMT |
| OK Nan there is one thing about this I don't understand...After you crumble the cakes and put down your top layer substrate, the tek calls for covering it with something and just throwing it somewhere dark for several days...Are you suggesting that during this incubation time that one should remove what cover the case has and wet it down, effectively eliminating any incubation time? |
| Posted by: Nose Nov 20 03, 10:18 PM GMT |
| great advice helps bunch's thanx nan
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| Posted by: Nanook Nov 20 03, 10:56 PM GMT | ||
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| Posted by: Psilocybeing Nov 22 03, 03:15 AM GMT |
| Nan maybe its just me but I think you should archive this
I was thinking about a bottom layer and reading this was just what I needed to see. Awsome info as always NAN  |